Nerds of the Roundtable | A Discussion of ‘Daredevil’ S3.

As we do with other shows, The Nerd Hub sits down to discuss our thoughts on the latest season of Daredevil, in the wake of two shocking cancellations despite each’s own massive improvement. So will Daredevil be the next to face fatal fate? We breakdown the likelihood of that with a review of the current season. What did they do right and what did they do wrong? Where have they been, and where could they be going? So, take a look at what we had to say and look for our review from other series, as well as, take to the comments section below and let us know what you thought about the movie.

Daredevil: Season 3

Daredevil returned for its third season recently after one of the longest hiatus’s in it saga. The highly anticipated return was expected to shake the bad vibes of S2 off and return to form while obtaining new flare. The question is, ‘did they do that’?

Did it do that, and would it avoid following suit of its counterpart shows, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist, with a cancellation. At this point, we can say that it didn’t help with cancellation regardless. Sorry for the wait on this one, but we can definitely still share our opinions on the show and if you’ve seen it for yourself. Take a read and let’s discuss it. If not, be warned of spoilers.

You wont find our opinions on the cancellation here for two reasons. Firstly, is that this is a discussion of the season itself and the production grading of. Secondly being, that this discussion took place well before it fell victim to the Netflix/Marvel fall out. However, you can check out our analysis on the subject in full, by using the related link below.

RELATED: From Born Again To Death Of | Netflix Cancels Daredevil After Third Season

This season was primarily based off of the Born Again story arc by Frank Miller. Did it do the book justice, or was it lacking?

Jack – Well obviously some parts had already been used in previous seasons, but I feel certain aspects could have still been included such as Karen’s heroin addiction. Whether be new from her guilt or in her backstory. I feel like they didn’t want to make her the bad guy though. That’s a cop out to me. You can always correct course in future seasons with even more character development rather than more teased development, but I guess her biggest arc was that of them and their loyalty to Matt, which makes sense to the adaptation and their three season arc together. Some aspects were changed unnecessarily, but some were rightfully shortened like Potters role with the suit. Some changes, like Kingpin’s plans, were expanded on. You also get this Bullseye arc, which never happened in the book. Those choices were far for the better. I feel like its this gen 1, gen 2 type of thing. In the end, the shows version was overall better, despite abandoning most of the source material.

Trey – Well as our more dedicated readers will know, I recently did an article that took a look at Born Again, and the thing about Born Again is that it is very much a comic of its time and doesn’t hold up when you start trying to compare it to modern stories. So in my opinion it’ actually a lot better than Born Again. Born Again kind of drops you in the middle of everything, and in the new season we seek Fisk’s plan play out in real time allowing for more of an understanding of the world and characters as a result. So does it do it justice? Yes, and it surpasses it in almost every way.

Marlon – I felt like it paid a good homage to the Born Again story. A broken hero shows us that they are just as vulnerable as we are. This is a strong point that rests at the center of both the original story, and this seasons adaptation. Beyond that it gets reasonably difficult to compare for an array of reasons. But with that point being well made, I would say that it did.

Jennifer – It is immensely different than the show. There is quite a bit missing that I would have liked to have seen. For one, even though it really didn’t effect the show, he donned the suit. I also would have liked to have seen Karen’s story as written in the comic, but they didn’t ruin that either. While many of these aspects could have been tweaked to fit the current continuum and still would have worked, the changes they did make were done well enough to substitute. I liked the show better than the comic. Some people have said the show feels overwhelmed, but I think the comic had a lot more crammed into it.

RELATED: Comic Book Spotlight | Daredevil: Born Again

Karen Page’s backstory had a lot of build up in previous seasons. Was the final payoff worth the wait?

Jack – It certainly gives her more depth, and it was an intriguing watch, but I’m not sure if it was even necessary. It didn’t really build anything forward for her. After a certain point, my desire for this part of her life to be explained had faded, so this one is most definitely a mixed bag. Nonetheless, I’ll take it, and approve of it.

Trey – Not really. The way they had built it up in both previous seasons and this season made it seem like she had killed her entire family or something. This particular scenario was just and accident based around one or two stupid decisions on the part of multiple characters. If anything, she seemed more like the hero in this story with a climax that just went wrong and is not nearly as interesting as the things she does in the show itself.

Marlon – I believe it did. I always wondered what her deal was and to finally see it play out was satisfying as I definitely did not see that coming. Originally, she was made out to be a horrible person who was driven out for something that she had done, but it became clear over time that she more so blamed herself, and was another victim in a horrible series of events that often are all too real.

Jonny – Personally, I didn’t care for it all that much. I felt that it was pretty bland. I did like the flashback episode though, because it gave her something extra regardless of how I felt about it and that is something they’ve been clearly holding back on. I never really liked the character in the first place, however, but I’m a little more in her corner now after seeing some sort of exposure. You can’t help but to feel for her, I just wish it would have done a more effective job as I still do not totally care for the character as a whole.

Jennifer – Absolutely! I was quite happy I had not read it prior to the season airing. I feel like it was a great surprise to the series and had i read it first, it would have ruined that for me. The fact that she didn’t seem like that type, that really reflects on everyday life because you never really can tell about a person, even if you think you know them. That’s actually what made me more curious about Karen and what led me to reading the story from Frank Miller.

Jake – Personally, I think it did. It answered many questions I’ve ad about the character since season 1. It’s always good to have loose ends that have been nagging you tied up, and It’s good to have it done in a way that makes you feel like you want to see this.

RELATED: Nerds of the Roundtable: A Full Season Review of Marvel’s The Punisher

Bullseye has a heavily revised origin story, which is far different than anything that appears in the comics. Is this for better or worse?

Jack – Far better. This was the greatest depth to the character I’ve ever encountered, and it raised the tension of this season to unimaginable heights because you knew that nothing and nobody was off limits. They still stayed true to his previous embodiment which primarily consisted of his accuracy ability, so I can see a reason to complain.

Trey – FAR BETTER! The thing about Bullseye in the comics is that he’s more or less a hired gun who just keeps getting better and better crap, (I believe he had adamantium joints at one point), and has a connection to Daredevil primarily by killing his lady friends because, Frank Miller. But this version of Bullseye is nothing short of brilliant. They turn him into one of the most unsettling and terrifying characters that Marvel has ever put on screen, with traits that constantly contradict one another. As I mentioned in my Heroic Hollywood review of the series, he is dedicated to his job, yet is clearly mentally unhinged. He is a good-looking guy with a decent amount of charisma yet can’t seem to connect with anyone around hi. He is a complete badass who could easily go toe to toe with The Punisher, yet his insecurities can come out over the simplest of provocations. All of which make him eerie and disturbing, yet endlessly watchable, and a welcome addition to the cast. In addition, they brilliantly frame the character as Matt’s polar opposite. Here we have two characters who are incredibly skilled and dedicated to doing what they do. They were both orphaned at a young age, but still had people who cared about them that they drove away in some way, shape, or form. The big difference between the two is that Matt chose his path to help people and try to make their lives better by fighting evil. This version of Bullseye also fights people, but does it for his own personal gratification and to sate his own urges even though he know it’s wrong. All of this just makes him an incredibly fascinating antagonist and one who I want to see more of if the Marvel/Netflix shows aren’t all axed before the end of next year.

Marlon – I hated it. I would have much rathered he’d been Bullseye from the beginning. I found the backstory to be another unnecessary origin story that bored me to bits. I found myself losing focus and asking myself why they were including this.

Jonny –  I thought that’s who that was, with his impossible shots and all. Not knowing his original material though, I did like him. The buzzing noise was really well played. I can say that I liked this version far more than the movie version, if that speaks to anything.

Jennifer – It was interesting to say the least. Reminded me of Dexter, so different for Marvel, yes. Different in television, not so much. His story was also surprising mainly because he flipped so fast despite showing that he did slightly struggle morally with working for Kingpin in the beginning. I think that ultimately they could have done a little better with his character.

Jake – I think it was better. It took a villain that I honestly didn’t care about and made him an engaging part of the narrative. He’s such a loose cannon, so wild and unpredictable, that i found he added an interesting dynamic to the season.

RELATED: LUKE CAGE CANCELLED | No Season 3 In Development

With the final scene indicating a return for Bullseye in a possible larger capacity, what would be your hopes for the character going forward?

Jack -I’d like to see how he acts when hes leading the charge, when he’s letting his own desires take control, as opposed to being manipulated and used for someone else’s script. I’d like to see how he would come at the situation as a mercenary specialist that he is. In that regard, I’d like for him to not only challenge Daredevil skill wise, but much like Kingpin, strategically.

Trey – You know, honestly that is something that I have no interest in speculating on. He was so damn good in this season that I honestly have no idea how they can top it, or even if they should try. To be honest, I don’t even know how the series can go forward after this. It’s going to be a tough mountain to climb.

Marlon – My biggest hope would be for some comic accuracy. We don’t need more grounded retconning. He’s an extremely talented bad guy. Heavily action based. Super hard challenge for the skills of Daredevil. That’s it. How they plan to do that as a main villain I couldn’t tell you. perhaps they missed that opportunity and perhaps they believe with this new approach they have an angle to work with. Give him a costume and I might be willing to play ball with that nonsense.

Jonny – I hadn’t thought about it much, figured he would come back to either kill The Kingpin or Daredevil at some point. From what I know of the character he is a merc, so maybe an applicable way to bring him back would be for him to receive a contract on someone Murdock cares about. From how they ended up writing him, revenge could also be a viable solution. Regardless of how they choose to go about it, as long as it makes sense, is well written, and delivered with impact, it should work out well.

Jennifer – It would be nice if the character felt a little less familiar, but it’s too late for that now. So, I wouldn’t say to forget him, but just a little less focus on his personal life and obsessive compulsive tendencies. Also, the tapes of his therapist were a bit much in my opinion, really put the Dexter-esque character over the top.

Jake – To be honest, I’d like to see more of his insanity played with. Here in Season 3 he still had something that grounded him, something that he cared for, but going forward there’s nothing that connects him to regular people anymore. I’d like to see how this affects him, and what he decides to then do with his time and his skills.

RELATED: IRON FIST Cancelled, But Is It Really Dead?

The Kingpin stands as the first villain of this continuity to return for another full blown go around. Did this turn out well, and if so, was it more so because of the acting, or the writing? Did it work better with a secondary villain, or could they have pulled it off regardless? Would an eventual third outing, not only work, but would it be something even worth entertaining?

*Note that the final leg of this question was as stated before, developed long before any news of cancellation.*

Jack – I think while he was able to stand twice for good reason, and in doing so able to explore another front of his mind, but it was certainly due to the help of Bullseye. A Third go around might not be such a good idea, if they plan on toppling this new bar they’ve set. Could it have been done alone, and can it going foward? Yes, and yes. Would it be worth entertaining? Not in my opinion.

Trey – The short answer to this is yes, yes, and I don’t know. The first season we got to see Fisk as the big crime lord of New York. What we saw this time around was Fisk being the boss, but also saw him more as a master manipulator of well, everyone. This time around he has his hands in legitimate circles and uses them to enact his revenge, as well as, consolidate power. Our secondary villain, Bullseye / Benjamin Poindexter, was a way to see this all play out in real time and give us an idea as to how far he will go to have someone in his pocket; which made some of the reveals later on make a bit more sense. As for a third time, to be honest, I’m genuinely shocked that they managed to capture this lightning in a bottle twice. My guess is if they do give the show another season, they’ll probably give the character a break, but we’ll see.

Marlon – Kingpin alone is a worthy adversary for the Daredevil. We’ve seen two faces of him now prove this. Having a hired gun at his side is totally awesome though. Eventually he would even need a supporting villain. Really, that lands on the writers who have up to this point done well with the character. I know that regardless of the scripting, Vincent D’Onofrio will at least shine with his talents.

Jennifer – I wouldn’t bring him back for a third try, but when Vanessa finally showed up I started noticing her taking over. I have a feeling, and they have the opportunity, to make her worse than Kingpin ever was. He wanted everything perfect for her and she just wanted to see blood spill.

Jake – Kingpin is such an iconic character, and he’s being played so well, that I’d love to see more of him. Bullseye I feel was important because he gave Kingpin an extended reach to do criminal acts while staying under arrest and fooling the FBI, but if the season tried to make it all about Bullseye and left Kingpin out entirely, I think the season would have suffered. He didn’t really appear in Daredevil’s Season 2 either, and I feel that the season suffered greatly for it after it moved away from Punisher. The Hand just wasn’t an interesting or engaging group of villains, so Kingpin, with his presence, history with the main characters, and cunning, would be a welcome addition in future seasons of Daredevil.

RELATED: TNH Roundtable: A Full Season Review | The Defenders

As far as third wheel federal agents roles go, how well did Nadeem’s role play out in general, as well as, compared to the likes of Agent Madami from The Punisher?

Jack – Nadeem’s role was certainly not only far more essential to the script than Madami’s was, but it was also done in a better fashion. Nadeem was the guy you felt sorry for, and the guy you felt bad for. He didn’t ask for any of it, but they forced his hand from the jump, and in return for all of his grief, he still lost. The only way this guy could win, was to lose his life. There was nothing he could have done in this losing battle. His role was most definitely crucial to not only Kingpin’s plan, but to picture being painted.

Trey – In the Punisher Roundtable I made it clear that I did not like Agent Madami at all. I feel that Nadeem is actually a good character and a welcome addition to the cast. Agent Nadeem really fit into the season well. He was a character who was just desperate enough and just stupid enough to fall for what Fisk was selling and cause all of these problems, but was also just a good enough man to try and eventually succeed in making things right.

Marlon – Nadeem was a pushover blinded by ambition but motivated by family, so there is no comparison to Madami. I only wish that Nadeem would have made it, it not at least for his family’s sake.

Jennifer – Agent Nadeem’s character was played very well. Even better than Agent Madami. I would have liked to have seen him make it another season; but we can’t all get what we want, now can we? At least they made his death purposeful.

Jake – Well, I don’t remember Agent Madami, but I do remember Agent Nadeem. He felt very humanized; he had everyday struggles that we can relate to, so he helped anchor us in the world of the FBI and Fisk, which I think is an important task.

RELATED: TNH Roundtable: Full Season Review | Iron Fist

Though we didn’t see Daredevil don the red suit this season, did it affect the impact of the story for better, or worse, if at all?

Jack – It did impact the story, but in a mannerism that helped echo Matt’s journey. He felt going back to the black was him being Born Again, but in reality, him discovering that he and only he can be Daredevil, with or without the suit, was his true rebirth. Finding his purpose and moral compass once again. That was him becoming Born Again, and the suit helped solidify this point.

Trey – To be honest I don’t really have an opinion on this matter. The red suit wasn’t particularly good to begin with and whatever character development was supposed to be attached to Matt choosing his old outfit over the new one was lost on me.

Marlon – It’s the acting and the emotion in the character that makes this show great. A broken character stripped to his bare roots made this season great, red suit or not.

Jonny – It didn’t bother me at all. Though the suit is iconic, it’s not what makes him Daredevil, most of this season was spent on him figuring that out for himself. That is something deep within him, possibly inherited from his parents.

Jennifer – Not at all. We all know who Matt Murdock is, even though he wasn’t sure of it himself. The suit is his no matter who puts it on. If anything, it proved to him and the audience just that.

Jake – I actually like that he didn’t. It made it seem like he was fighting an evil shadow of himself, a mirror image of what he could become. Thematically I felt this was appropriate, especially because Murdock struggling to find himself was an important part of this season.

RELATED: TNH Roundtables: Full Season Review | Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Which was your favorite fight scene, and why?

Jack – Hands down the three way penthouse fight. This was easily the best scene in the entire season. It perfectly acted as a pinnacle to an every scaling progression of greatness this season. It all amounted to this throw down, and they seized it perfectly with each characters overall arc meeting here, each with their own intertwining agenda, each with a lust for blood. It was perfectly choreographed, scripted, directed, staged, and shot. No better example of a season long climax.

Trey – Has to be the three way fight between Daredevil, Bullseye, and Fisk. Fantastically choreographed. The stakes were incredibly high because all three of them we’re looking to kill each other. Both Daredevil and Fisk were trying to protect Vanessa while Fisk was trying to kill both Daredevil and Bullseye, and both Daredevil and Bullseye were trying to kill each other and Fisk. It just made for a tense and insane brawl that kept me on the edge of my seat the entire time, and I just wished that it would keep going.

Marlon – The scene at the newspaper office when Karen was going to make that witness tell his story about Kingpin setting himself up. That scene humbled Matt since he came across an adversary just as good as he is.

Jonny – I would have to go with the ending scenes with the lot of them. Personally, I feel that most of this season Daredevil did not bring the pain. That scene, however, was nothing but.

Jennifer – My favorite fight scene has to be the prison fight scene. It set the stage going forward and it felt like a nice throwback.

Jake – Part of me wants to say the prison fight scene, just for the scope and work behind it, but i’d have to say my absolute favorite fight in the season was the three-way battle between Kingpin, Daredevil and Bullseye at the end. Seeing everyone cross paths in that fight, with everyone out from their own agenda, made it incredibly fun to watch.

RELATED: A First Impressions Review of Marvel’s Black Panther | Spoiler Free

Did the writing this season keep you at a steady pace of intrigue, as compared to some complaints of season one losing Peoples engagement? Did it keep things clean and well pieced together, as compared to some complaints of season two being drawn all over the place, and forced with an overabundance of rusty plot gears?

Jack – Oh, most definitely. This season was like a a pyramid of developments that just kept stacking layer upon layer until reaching the horizon. Ever entwining fates, reveals, suspense, dialogue, it all flowed and meshed so seamlessly that it took you along for a ride.

Trey – My answer would be yes to both of these. This season was what I would call a season of escalation. Things start out rather slow and tedious, but they keep getting better and better as it goes on. The action gets netter. The schemes get better. The reveals get better. And it’s all topped off by a hell of a brawl at the end. So yeah, it does a far better job structuring wise than the first two seasons.

Marlon – Great story telling. I feel like it’s only getting better. With plenty of small, yet effective revelations like the nun being Matt’s mom, who saw that coming? Great character development like Karen’s backstory. With plenty of increasingly large reveals, it kept a very smooth pace, making this one of the best seasons of any Marvel Netflix show so far for me.

Jonny – I thought they did a great job overall, and I can’t wait for next season. The Plot twists and reveals really paid dividends to the pacing and the overall quality of the season. Definitely recommended.

Jennifer – Being that I watched it in two days, I would say that it completely held my attention. Everything they was written out perfectly as needed in my opinion. It was Great. Very rarely do superheroes without parents get them back, so that was new and interesting to watch. Instead of more pain, let the poor guy heal a little. Nothing rusty about any of the story line other than the Poindexter character that I mentioned earlier.

Jake – While I feel the first episode was slow to get started, what with Murdock spending most of the episode sulking, after that I think it picks up the pace and it doesn’t stop. I ran through 8 episodes in one sitting,, and I barely realized it because the pacing was just so well done. I personally never got bored with it after the first episode. It grabbed my attention and ran with it.

RELATED: A First Impressions Review of Marvel’s Thor: Ragnarok

Foggy Nelson, D.A? Or Nelson, Murdock, and Paige?

Jack – While Nelson, D. A. would have been a better move for their goals going forward, the clear objective was to build the Born Again story, and in doing that we get Nelson, Murdock, and Paige. This also acts as Paige’s evolution forward which was absolutely necessary to make or break her entire series long arc.

Trey – Well since we got the latter, I’m not sure that it really matters which I would have preferred. I will say say that them coming back together seems to be backtracking on their character development from season two, yet at the same time, a big part of this season was them realizing that they are behind Matt no matter what. So I guess them coming back together was the finalization of that arc.

Marlon – I feel that foggy should go out on his own. He has done well for himself on his own, and it’s only a matter of time before Matt screws things up at Nelson, Murdock, and Paige.

Jonny – I liked the D.A. idea, but it reminded me too much of The Dark Knight. I like the private firm route more, as it leads to more random encounters and behind the scenes story arcs, which can not only help balance pace, but give us more to chew on.

Jennifer – Most definitely Nelson, Murdock, and Paige. It has a better ring to it.

Jake – Oh, Nelson, Murdock, and Paige, no question. Anything that keeps this group of friends together is the best option for me.

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Overall, would you recommend the latest season of Daredevil, to the average viewer?

Jack – Absolutely, even with what you may have to watch to catch up, this season alone will make it all worth the binge. Best season of Marvel television thus far, and that’s speaking volumes considering the path Agents of Shield has been on. If you were into that sort of thing you might even be able to skip the previous catalog and still enjoy this season alone. While I wouldn’t suggest such a thing, It’s that good, and that well structured to its own story that it might not even effect your decision as to this question.

Trey – Absolutely. Unlike other Marvel Netflix series, this one seems to have a bit more of a wider appeal. It has pretty much everything that one could want out of a television show and lacks some of the goofier elements that might make something like Iron Fist or the second season less appealing. Overall, I say people should give it a watch.

Marlon – Most definitely. Easily a two thumbs up. Even with a few personal issues like the handling of Bullseye, this was a well thought out, well captured story. It will please you on so many different levels.

Jonny – For sure, thought they probably should watch the first two seasons, as well as, The Defenders before doing so to understand what’s going on.

Jennifer – Yes, I would recommend it over any other Marvel series that aired this year, except, maybe Agents of Shield. I would still like to see a Daredevil movie with Charlie Cox, but that will never happen.

Jake – Yes, yes, yes! Even if you’re unfamiliar with Daredevil, it has everything you could ever want out of a show: deep and fleshed-out characters, an engaging plot, interesting twists and turns, awesome action scenes, and even a bit of comedy thrown in for good measure. With a mix like this, you can’t possibly go wrong.

RELATED: LOKI and SCARLET WITCH Among MARVEL Series’ That Could Be Heading To DISNEY PLAY Streaming Service

In Conclusion.

The third season of Daredevil stands unanimously as one of the greatest installments on comic book television. There’s simply no other way to put it other than it’s a masterpiece. If this doesn’t bring acclaim to comic book properties, we call bullshit, and just don’t know what would.

RELATED: Comic Crunch: Oak, North, Renascentia, Shadowland: Blood In The Streets

Stay Tuned for our upcoming Nerds of the Roundtable’s where we will discuss our thoughts on TV and Cinema of the various sorts, and sound off in the comments with your opinions.

Writing Contributions by, Jack Flowers, Trey Griffeth, Jake Rodrigues, Marlon Ortega, Jonny Crash, and Jennifer Gritten.
Editing by, Jack Flowers.

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By Jack Flowers

Editor-In-Chief and Creative Director for The Nerd Hub.
Host of Take The Piss Podcast and Gaming.
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Chicago-Irish bred genius who may have finally found his calling.
I'm a little Jack of All Trades, and if you can teach it, I can learn it.